<html>
<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting 2020-03-12 · wg-governance · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/index.html">wg-governance</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html">meeting 2020-03-12</a></h3>

<hr>

<base href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com">

<head><link href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/style.css" rel="stylesheet"></head>

<a name="189897427"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/189897427" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#189897427">(Mar 06 2020 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>Remember that the winter/summer time switch is applied inconsistently across applicable time zones until April. So this meeting, which was regularly at 19h00 CET/1pm EST/10am PST, will now be (as I see on my calendar) at 18h00 CET.  For details, see <a href="https://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html" target="_blank" title="https://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html">https://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html</a></p>



<a name="190105912"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190105912" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190105912">(Mar 09 2020 at 19:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>When I prepared official minutes from last time noted items to followup, put in Action Item List Added agenda item fo12 March to discuss what to items of the 27 Feb Action Item List to add to agenda for 26 March and what to take async.</p>



<a name="190105961"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190105961" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190105961">(Mar 09 2020 at 19:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>For convenience, here is the Agenda link. <a href="https://hackmd.io/ATj1rZJaRimaIfIWfAOYfQ" target="_blank" title="https://hackmd.io/ATj1rZJaRimaIfIWfAOYfQ">https://hackmd.io/ATj1rZJaRimaIfIWfAOYfQ</a></p>



<a name="190108618"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190108618" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190108618">(Mar 09 2020 at 19:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>To be absolutely totally explicit: it looks like the meeting time is following the DST time-change; is this okay with everyone? (I have no preference, and it sounds like most of the group members are in areas that follow DST anyway)</p>



<a name="190108753"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190108753" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190108753">(Mar 09 2020 at 19:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>That is fine by me!</p>



<a name="190201944"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190201944" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190201944">(Mar 10 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>as noted in conflict thread, I cannot be present.</p>



<a name="190205434"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190205434" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190205434">(Mar 10 2020 at 18:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>however given that meeting is on Zulip can happily handle minutes and blog post again</p>



<a name="190398348"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190398348" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190398348">(Mar 12 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah I will actually not be able to make it, I had somehow decided it would be Wednesday but today this slot does not work well for me. I will read scroll back or notes though if y'all would like that.</p>



<a name="190413949"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190413949" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190413949">(Mar 12 2020 at 16:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>Good morning <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="2317">@WG-governance</span> ! Meeting starts in 10 min!</p>



<a name="190414077"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190414077" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190414077">(Mar 12 2020 at 16:51)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> That would be great, thanks Mark!</p>



<a name="190415254"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415254" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415254">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Alright! Time for the meeting to begin! Please react with <span aria-label="wavy dash" class="emoji emoji-3030" role="img" title="wavy dash">:wavy_dash:</span> to indicate you are here!</p>



<a name="190415284"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415284">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>er...wrong emoji</p>



<a name="190415334"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415334" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415334">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Please react to this message with <span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span> to indicate you are here</p>



<a name="190415432"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415432" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415432">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Agenda: <a href="https://hackmd.io/ATj1rZJaRimaIfIWfAOYfQ" target="_blank" title="https://hackmd.io/ATj1rZJaRimaIfIWfAOYfQ">https://hackmd.io/ATj1rZJaRimaIfIWfAOYfQ</a></p>



<a name="190415525"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415525" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415525">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>First item for discussion is the Pre-RFC process</p>



<a name="190415577"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415577" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415577">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>hello</p>



<a name="190415604"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415604" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415604">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:02)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="225192">@Nell Shamrell-Harrington</span> Actually I'd like to do some follow-up first.</p>



<a name="190415628"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415628" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415628">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I should add that as agenda item.</p>



<a name="190415729"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415729" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415729">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>The first being, I believe core discussed the project group rfc recently, as there has been more activity. I plan to address that feedback this week.</p>



<a name="190415808"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415808" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415808">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh, heh, I forgot about that RFC</p>



<a name="190415816"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415816" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415816">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I thought we had landed it</p>



<a name="190415828"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415828" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415828">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2856" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2856">https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2856</a></p>



<a name="190415921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190415921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190415921">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:05)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="219696">@XAMPPRocky</span> go right ahead!</p>



<a name="190416016"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416016" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416016">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>The only other item was again following up on moving the repositories. <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I know you went through them recently. Is there any more to do for that?</p>



<a name="190416120"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416120" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416120">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Looks like <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> had some recent comments on that RFC</p>



<a name="190416153"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416153" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416153">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Re: repos, well, I did a kind of first pass, but I didn't act on any of my thoughts :)</p>



<a name="190416158"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416158" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416158">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's definitely more to do</p>



<a name="190416178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416178">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. some of the repos (like <code>ena</code>) need to get moved</p>



<a name="190416333"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416333" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416333">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, the move seems to be progressing fine overall though.</p>



<a name="190416355"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416355" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416355">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, it's progressing, just slowly</p>



<a name="190416383"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416383" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416383">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's all I have for follow-up.</p>



<a name="190416460"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416460" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416460">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>It seems like <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> 's main suggestion on that RFC is to split it into two RFCs - one for the working group and one for community groups definitions</p>



<a name="190416471"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416471" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416471">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>What do you think of this, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="219696">@XAMPPRocky</span>?</p>



<a name="190416494"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416494" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416494">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah I was just skimming the feedback.</p>



<a name="190416510"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416510" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416510">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do tend to agree that the "project group" and its lifecycle is the main contribution here</p>



<a name="190416517"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416517" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416517">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>That does remind me of something else:</p>



<a name="190416592"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416592" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416592">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>which I'll note in passing (and we could make into an ad-hoc agenda item, but probably better to address in a follow up mtg)</p>



<a name="190416642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416642">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>we were discussing the question of approving some of the new domain working group proposals (or just discussing them anyway) in the core team meeting, and we realized that we felt like there hadn't been the kind of "reassessment" of whether the domain working groups themselves were a useful concept that we had thought about it</p>



<a name="190416656"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416656" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416656">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular trying to better narrow their goals and parametres, I think</p>



<a name="190416669"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416669" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416669">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I want to take some to write my full thoughts. But generally, nrc mentioned having more radical changes to domain wgs and I think if that's something we want to do it definitely makes sense to split the two.</p>



<a name="190416690"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416690" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416690">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I proposed that this might be a good convesation for governance wg to try and facilitate (and <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> and I brainstormed a bit about it)</p>



<a name="190416751"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416751" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416751">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="219696">XAMPPRocky</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190416669" title="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190416669">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>generally, nrc mentioned having more radical changes to domain wgs</p>
</blockquote>
<p>basically this -- maybe we should split them out and revisit more holistically</p>



<a name="190416834"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416834" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416834">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>i'm roughly of the opinion that we might want to consider they form as "community groups" that we can perhaps link to without endorsing, and we use domain WGs for domains where the project considers them a project priority. and i suspect we won't have many of those</p>



<a name="190416919"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416919" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416919">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Any more thoughts on that RFC?</p>



<a name="190416922"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190416922" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190416922">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>(not sure how deep we want to go into that discussion this week)</p>



<a name="190417027"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417027" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417027">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thought I had is</p>



<a name="190417044"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417044" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417044">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>we've had some initial experience with <a class="stream" data-stream-id="216763" href="/#narrow/stream/216763-project-inline-asm">#project-inline-asm</a> and <a class="stream" data-stream-id="216762" href="/#narrow/stream/216762-project-safe-transmute">#project-safe-transmute</a></p>



<a name="190417053"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417053" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417053">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>as well as <a class="stream" data-stream-id="210922" href="/#narrow/stream/210922-project-ffi-unwind">#project-ffi-unwind</a></p>



<a name="190417132"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417132" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417132">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>those seem to have gone well?</p>



<a name="190417154"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417154" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417154">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure if it really effects any of the text that much, though some of that feels relevant to <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="256841">@Nick Cameron</span>'s comment here:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I would somewhat expect a formal charter to be in the consensus-making step (2), since I expect that building consensus will require iteration on the charter in many cases. For the exploratory stage, I think only enough of a description to persuade a team member to be a liaison is necessary.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In particular, I think that the "getting started" process for <a class="stream" data-stream-id="216763" href="/#narrow/stream/216763-project-inline-asm">#project-inline-asm</a> has been a bit rocky. :)</p>



<a name="190417170"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417170" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417170">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it is interesting to ponder in what order the various steps (e.g., creating zulip stream, formal approval, etc) should take place</p>



<a name="190417228"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417228" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417228">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>(in many ways it's also been a success, though, as the group has been very productive)</p>



<a name="190417251"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417251" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417251">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>but maybe that's better discussed async</p>



<a name="190417272"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417272" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417272">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>How about we continue that discussion async this week and next?</p>



<a name="190417281"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417281" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417281">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think this is all interesting, though I think we should move on, as to not get lost in the weeds. Maybe this can be next meetings topic?</p>



<a name="190417288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417288">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>(not sure <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="219696">@XAMPPRocky</span> if you have a kind of list of feedback to address..?)</p>



<a name="190417320"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417320" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417320">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>(it might be interesting to start a zulip topic, or even multiple, on any interesting points)</p>



<a name="190417381"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417381" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417381">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I think it would also be nice to talk to the project groups and ask them about how they felt.</p>



<a name="190417429"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417429" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417429">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Add as something to continue async and discuss as an agenda item for next meeting</p>



<a name="190417500"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417500" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417500">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Are we ready to move onto the pre-RFC process?</p>



<a name="190417515"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417515" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417515">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sure!</p>



<a name="190417528"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417528" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417528">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let's do it</p>



<a name="190417546"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417546" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417546">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>what are people's thoughts on this?</p>



<a name="190417561"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417561" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417561">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's somehow connected to the previous question anyway</p>



<a name="190417571"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417571" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417571">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's quite useful to have a formal pre-RFC process - as it makes it much more likely for the eventual RFC to be accepted</p>



<a name="190417583"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417583" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417583">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>First question: are people familiar with the outline of <a href="http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2019/12/03/aic-improving-the-pre-rfc-process/" target="_blank" title="http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2019/12/03/aic-improving-the-pre-rfc-process/">the idea I was proposing</a>?</p>



<a name="190417594"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417594" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417594">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>It was very helpful on my GH access policy RFC</p>



<a name="190417607"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417607" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417607">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>Do you mind refreshing us on that, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> ?</p>



<a name="190417697"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417697" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417697">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yep. So I wrote <a href="http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2019/12/03/aic-improving-the-pre-rfc-process/" target="_blank" title="http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2019/12/03/aic-improving-the-pre-rfc-process/">this blog post</a>. The idea was to start moving towards more of a phased procss, beginning at "the beginning"</p>



<a name="190417755"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417755" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417755">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular, rather than the official start of the RFC process being "you open an RFC", we would have some different way to float ideas ("proposals")</p>



<a name="190417766"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417766" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417766">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>they would start with an open issue and an internals thread</p>



<a name="190417829"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417829" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417829">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>I like what is proposed in that blog post</p>



<a name="190417834"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417834" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417834">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>if somebody likes the idea, or the team wants to pick it up, a "liaison" would get involved in the discussion and work with the people pushing on the idea.</p>



<a name="190417890"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417890" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417890">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>in the post, I wrote that we could create a project group,</p>



<a name="190417899"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417899" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417899">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I don't necessarily think that's "required"</p>



<a name="190417919"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417919" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417919">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>the main idea was that the <em>first step</em> to opening an RFC is to get another team member on board</p>



<a name="190417923"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417923" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417923">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>and they will work with you</p>



<a name="190417962"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417962" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417962">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and you are then the "shepherd" of the proposal)</p>



<a name="190417965"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190417965" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190417965">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>works for me!</p>



<a name="190418010"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418010" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418010">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's a good idea to discuss a bit the motivations? I think I started from a sense that we often get RFCs that are kind of "out of the blue",</p>



<a name="190418037"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418037" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418037">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that it would be better to help clarify the ideas that are "moving forward"</p>



<a name="190418056"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418056" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418056">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>from "ideas that are speculative"</p>



<a name="190418073"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418073" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418073">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>however, I've since come to be very motivated by stories like <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="225192">@Nell Shamrell-Harrington</span>'s</p>



<a name="190418138"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418138" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418138">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have in the past heard someone propose an idea and said "You should write an RFC for that!" and then they spent a ton of time on the formal RFC and....it wasn't accepted</p>



<a name="190418145"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418145" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418145">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is, the realization that navigating the RFC process can be intimiating</p>



<a name="190418160"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418160" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418160">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>and/or just not that much fun? not sure what best adjective is</p>



<a name="190418167"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418167" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418167">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>but in any case it works best with a liaison</p>



<a name="190418178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418178">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="224872">@Ryan Levick</span> said the same</p>



<a name="190418181"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418181" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418181">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p><span aria-label="thumbs up" class="emoji emoji-1f44d" role="img" title="thumbs up">:thumbs_up:</span></p>



<a name="190418191"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418191" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418191">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="225192">Nell Shamrell-Harrington</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190418138" title="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190418138">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I have in the past heard someone propose an idea and said "You should write an RFC for that!" and then they spent a ton of time on the formal RFC and....it wasn't accepted</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes, also this</p>



<a name="190418232"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418232" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418232">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, there's no sense in writing out a full RFC without the ide that <strong>somebody</strong> on the team is into the idea</p>



<a name="190418240"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418240" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418240">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Speaking as someone from outside the lang team, I like it because there are often ideas for language features that I want to propose but I can't commit to doing the research and work to make the proposal.</p>



<a name="190418256"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418256" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418256">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, exactly</p>



<a name="190418279"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418279" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418279">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190418232" title="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190418232">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>like, there's no sense in writing out a full RFC without the ide that <strong>somebody</strong> on the team is into the idea</p>
</blockquote>
<p>this is also a way of exposing "team capacity"</p>



<a name="190418300"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418300" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418300">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't really see this as specific to the lang team, I should add</p>



<a name="190418311"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418311" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418311">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I thought it made sense to start there</p>



<a name="190418421"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418421" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418421">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>On the question of 'project group',</p>



<a name="190418433"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418433" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418433">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't recall who I was talking to -- maybe <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span>?</p>



<a name="190418463"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418463" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418463">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>but we were talking about the distinction between "some work that a few people are doing"</p>



<a name="190418483"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418483" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418483">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>versus "a big effort that kind of demands more collaboration"</p>



<a name="190418498"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418498" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418498">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>this comes up a lot in the compiler team</p>



<a name="190418500"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418500" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418500">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>but also I think in the lang team</p>



<a name="190418505"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418505" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418505">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I'm sure other teams</p>



<a name="190418524"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418524" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418524">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, mark also mentioned this in the project group rfc.</p>



<a name="190418537"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418537" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418537">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>we were thinking of the term "project" vs "project group"</p>



<a name="190418559"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418559" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418559">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>i like this, it's making processes that kinda already existed more explicit</p>



<a name="190418589"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418589" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418589">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>where "project group" is a subset of projects, or subclass, dependong on your POV :)</p>



<a name="190418598"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418598" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418598">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me OOP till I die</p>



<a name="190418621"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418621" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418621">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., it's sometimes useful to just talk about all the ongoing "projects"</p>



<a name="190418683"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418683" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418683">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>but if you are looking to e.g. join and contribute,</p>



<a name="190418721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418721">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>then you're maybe more interetsed in the "project groups" -- those will be the places we tend to have regular meetings and more structure</p>



<a name="190418748"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418748" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418748">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>a project is probably just a reviewer + a person or two writing PRs, and they're not looking to mentor and grow</p>



<a name="190418752"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418752" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418752">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I like that</p>



<a name="190418757"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418757" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418757">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, I mention it because</p>



<a name="190418771"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418771" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418771">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>one of the bits of feedback I usually get with this proposal is</p>



<a name="190418782"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418782" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418782">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>"my idea is small, I don't really need all that overhea of a project group"</p>



<a name="190418804"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418804" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418804">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I happen to think most people underestimate how big their ida is :)</p>



<a name="190418840"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418840" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418840">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p><em>but</em> I think saying "we'll create a project -- or even a project group, if warranted" is fine</p>



<a name="190418896"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418896" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418896">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree</p>



<a name="190418905"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418905" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418905">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>in the case case of a project it mostly means "we list it in our list of active projects, and it still needs a liaison"</p>



<a name="190418952"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190418952" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190418952">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>(that's kind of the lang team equivalent of "reviewer")</p>



<a name="190419092"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419092" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419092">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd probably add the informal (or maybe formal) rule that when selecting a liaison, you look at all the other projects that they are involved in (across all teams) and judge if they really have capacity. My hunch is people should do at most 2 or 3 things at a time -- and only 1 of them should be a "group". </p>
<p>(Note: I know because I violate this rule quite fragrantly :P)</p>



<a name="190419119"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419119" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419119">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>What's the next step on turning this into an RFC? (I am assuming that will be the eventual end point)</p>



<a name="190419159"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419159" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419159">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was just going to say maybe we should cut to that since I don't think anyone is "opposed"</p>



<a name="190419273"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419273" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419273">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let's do it!</p>



<a name="190419300"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419300" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419300">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>who wants to write it up?</p>



<a name="190419305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419305">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I think it makes sense to make this an RFC</p>



<a name="190419311"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419311" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419311">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>for the usual reasons</p>



<a name="190419317"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419317" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419317">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>but among them</p>



<a name="190419327"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419327" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419327">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd really like to "transition" all the open RFCs to whatever new system is</p>



<a name="190419339"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419339" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419339">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I think that takes an affirmative decision</p>



<a name="190419362"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419362" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419362">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="225192">Nell Shamrell-Harrington</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190419300" title="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190419300">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>who wants to write it up?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>this then is the question</p>



<a name="190419380"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419380" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419380">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I should not do the writing :) I'd be happy to be "liaison" to the ida though ;)</p>



<a name="190419419"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419419" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419419">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can do the write up - but it would likely need to wait until next week</p>



<a name="190419421"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419421" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419421">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>(says the person who just said that he should liaison fewer things)</p>



<a name="190419451"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419451" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419451">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="225192">Nell Shamrell-Harrington</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190419419" title="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190419419">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I can do the write up - but it would likely need to wait until next week</p>
</blockquote>
<p>that is fine, there's no especial hurry</p>



<a name="190419519"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419519" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419519">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Adding to the meeting notes</p>



<a name="190419561"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419561" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419561">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Next up is a related topic "How to manage RFC discussion"</p>



<a name="190419650"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419650" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419650">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there are two aspects to this</p>



<a name="190419652"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419652" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419652">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm, I don't remember this.</p>



<a name="190419683"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419683" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419683">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>1) How to moderate discussion on RFCs - especially when someone disagrees strongly</p>



<a name="190419696"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419696" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419696">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>one question</p>



<a name="190419699"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419699" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419699">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>before we move to that</p>



<a name="190419737"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419737" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419737">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, I think there are some interesting details on how "pre-RFC" should work</p>



<a name="190419790"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419790" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419790">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>2) How to get more discussion on RFCs when they are quiet</p>



<a name="190419795"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419795" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419795">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:36)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> cool</p>



<a name="190419805"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419805" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419805">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure if it makes sense to talk about them in  <em>this</em> meeting? I guess we could try to discuss them async too</p>



<a name="190419850"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419850" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419850">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let's do that async</p>



<a name="190419866"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419866" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419866">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok.</p>



<a name="190419913"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419913" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419913">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="225192">Nell Shamrell-Harrington</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190419650" title="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12/near/190419650">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think there are two aspects to this</p>
</blockquote>
<p>or maybe three, as the related issue ws talking about something else entirely</p>



<a name="190419922"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419922" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419922">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>Back to managing RFC discussion?</p>



<a name="190419961"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419961" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419961">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mean <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/issues/38" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/issues/38">https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/issues/38</a></p>



<a name="190419993"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190419993" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190419993">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>which was discussing specifically the way we make FCP decisions, but also kind of branched off into generally managing "long and complex" discussions</p>



<a name="190420005"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420005" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420005">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah</p>



<a name="190420103"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420103" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420103">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have a meta thought</p>



<a name="190420121"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420121" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420121">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it'd be great for us to be experimenting with changing the way that RFC discussion works</p>



<a name="190420132"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420132" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420132">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am a bit nervous about trying to do too many things at once</p>



<a name="190420177"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420177" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420177">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am definitely interested in hearing more about that potential experimenting</p>



<a name="190420208"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420208" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420208">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>that said, we also did an experiment with <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2850" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2850">rfc#2850</a> (now <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2873" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2873">rfc#2873</a>) that is relevant</p>



<a name="190420250"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420250" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420250">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>though I'm not following closely enough to really saw how well it has worked =)</p>



<a name="190420278"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420278" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420278">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>skimming through it now</p>



<a name="190420364"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420364" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420364">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>the idea there was that the discussion thread on <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2850" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2850">rfc#2850</a> got too long and painful, we <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="143274">@Amanieu</span> summarized it into the RFC and we closed <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2850" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2850">rfc#2850</a> and opened <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2873" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2873">rfc#2873</a>. The hope was that we could refocus the discussion on the key outstanding points, and also avoid rehashing old arguments.</p>



<a name="190420380"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420380" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420380">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah</p>



<a name="190420407"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420407" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420407">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also feel that, that is a common complaint of RFCs.</p>



<a name="190420415"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420415" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420415">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that for this to work effectively (a) we'll have to do it a few times and (b) we'll have to combine it with some stronger moderation probably (at least in controvesial cases)</p>



<a name="190420425"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420425" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420425">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>but reawlly what I want is</p>



<a name="190420439"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420439" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420439">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>when the RFC thread gets to be &gt;N comments (50? 75?)</p>



<a name="190420458"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420458" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420458">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>it is locked by a bot</p>



<a name="190420471"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420471" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420471">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>or even just <em>closed</em> (probably not closed :)</p>



<a name="190420484"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420484" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420484">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>and the shepherd is pinged to do this step of summarizing</p>



<a name="190420554"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420554" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420554">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can see being locked by a bot</p>



<a name="190420560"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420560" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420560">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do think that you have to close+open for it to really work, because you want people to be able to come without having to click the "view more" buttons etc, and you want to be able to start the thread from a new point, and not from "the beginning of time"</p>



<a name="190420633"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420633" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420633">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>there is a kind of DOS potential here I realize :)</p>



<a name="190420641"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420641" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420641">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I guess we can deal with that separately</p>



<a name="190420642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420642">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>or some sort of alert on the PR asking the shepherd to open a new RFC with a summary</p>



<a name="190420657"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420657" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420657">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>if it ever really happened</p>



<a name="190420672"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420672" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420672">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>(anyway we have that same problem, but worse, without locking)</p>



<a name="190420684"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420684" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420684">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>we can lock after it is closed</p>



<a name="190420695"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420695" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420695">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>and the new RFC is open</p>



<a name="190420700"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420700" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420700">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> and I had talked about making said bot but I don't think they ever did</p>



<a name="190420724"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420724" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420724">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>I definitely think you want to lock</p>



<a name="190420743"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420743" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420743">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>the idea should be "conversation <em>cannot</em> continue until a summary is done"</p>



<a name="190420753"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420753" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420753">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>gotcha</p>



<a name="190420763"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420763" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420763">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>like "no reasonable human should be asked to follow all this" :P</p>



<a name="190420793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420793">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>but there are some interesting questions, like,</p>



<a name="190420818"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420818" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420818">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>how "neutral" should the summary be?</p>



<a name="190420836"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420836" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420836">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>good point</p>



<a name="190420855"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420855" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420855">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>we would definitely want several examples</p>



<a name="190420859"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420859" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420859">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>my take is "not neutral", actually, but I'd be curious to hear what other thinks</p>



<a name="190420917"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420917" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420917">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it should reflect the team's current opinion, well justified of course</p>



<a name="190420926"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420926" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420926">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>or at least I think it's ok for it to do so</p>



<a name="190420990"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190420990" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190420990">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think neutrality is a bad goal. People are clearly biased and a lot of decisions are not rational.</p>



<a name="190421010"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421010" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421010">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's part of it, I don't think neutrality can be "achieved", but I also think</p>



<a name="190421030"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421030" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421030">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>we want to be driving discussions to conclusions</p>



<a name="190421055"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421055" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421055">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's a fine line between "shutting down" dissent and helping to provide clarity :)</p>



<a name="190421074"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421074" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421074">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>so it'll take some practice</p>



<a name="190421087"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421087" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421087">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it's work we already do all the time anyhow</p>



<a name="190421200"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421200" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421200">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>(<a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2836#issuecomment-594880970" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2836#issuecomment-594880970">a recent example of me trying to do this</a> -- present the arguments, but also take a position)</p>



<a name="190421202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421202">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>shall we continue the discussion async until next meeting?</p>



<a name="190421238"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421238" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421238">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe it's useful to highlight what are the questions to discuss async?</p>



<a name="190421252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421252">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>good point</p>



<a name="190421296"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421296" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421296">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also we don't have anything left, except pick next topic which we kinda did.</p>



<a name="190421334"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421334" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421334">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>(also, this idea doesn't really address the first two points you raised, moderation + getting more feedback, but that's probably ok)</p>



<a name="190421339"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421339" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421339">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the most relevant one is "What do we do when a discussion in a PR becomes unwieldly?"</p>



<a name="190421346"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421346" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421346">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or at least we have a choice of a few.</p>



<a name="190421429"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421429" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421429">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>Followed by "How do we moderate discussions in a PR?"</p>



<a name="190421506"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421506" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421506">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>one question is "how to approach this" -- i'd be incline to create a bot and let individual rfcs or threads "opt in" to trying it, to start, for example</p>



<a name="190421511"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421511" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421511">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>We may be able to leave off the "Get more discussion" point for now</p>



<a name="190421513"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421513" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421513">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like closing and opening new PRs is the right move, as you have said it's the only way to reset conversation while keeping history.</p>



<a name="190421573"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421573" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421573">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess yeah then maybe there is some fine-tuning of exactly how the bot works that could be done, though the high-level idea seems clear enough</p>



<a name="190421587"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421587" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421587">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>The heuristics would be difficult though.</p>



<a name="190421603"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421603" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421603">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>a related note would be "velocity"</p>



<a name="190421637"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421637" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421637">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it'd be useful to auto-lock threads if the rolloing average of "comments/hour" over the last hour is&gt;N</p>



<a name="190421642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421642">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>it feels like creating a bot might be jumping to the solution before getting buy in about the solution</p>



<a name="190421660"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421660" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421660">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>er, about the problem, rather</p>



<a name="190421674"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421674" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421674">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>E.g. it can't just be N comments, what if someone proposing fcp causes the rfc to close?</p>



<a name="190421687"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421687" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421687">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, it's definitely possible to do manually.</p>



<a name="190421694"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421694" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421694">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>at the same time, I feel very clear that we need this :)</p>



<a name="190421711"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421711" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421711">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can understand that</p>



<a name="190421800"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421800" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421800">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe pre-bot a good idea would be to write-up guidelines</p>



<a name="190421812"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421812" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421812">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree on that</p>



<a name="190421819"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421819" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421819">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., I'd be interested in</p>



<a name="190421825"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421825" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421825">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>can we give a "structure" to the summary?</p>



<a name="190421836"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421836" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421836">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>even a simple one I bet would be really helpful</p>



<a name="190421960"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421960" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421960">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>So the follow on question is who wants to take on the work of writing up guidelines :)</p>



<a name="190421973"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421973" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421973">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maybe that's a "first deliverable"?)</p>



<a name="190421995"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190421995" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190421995">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I cannot take that on before next meeting</p>



<a name="190422001"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422001" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422001">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>related: it feels like we should open a new wg-governance issue for this idea</p>



<a name="190422130"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422130" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422130">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm</p>



<a name="190422163"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422163" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422163">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I might be able to take a stab at a "guideline outline"</p>



<a name="190422170"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422170" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422170">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>cool</p>



<a name="190422181"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422181" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422181">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I know I shouldn't volunteer</p>



<a name="190422187"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422187" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422187">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I'm kind of curious :)</p>



<a name="190422199"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422199" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422199">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>do you mind opening the issue as well?</p>



<a name="190422259"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422259" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422259">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, I volunteer to open an issue, and take a first draft at an outline. the former I'll definitely do, the latter, well,let's see :P</p>



<a name="190422266"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422266" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422266">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree you shouldn't volunteer - but also know that you likely have the most experience and thoughts on this</p>



<a name="190422272"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422272" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422272">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok!</p>



<a name="190422310"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422310" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422310">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>happy if anyone wants to take it off my plate</p>



<a name="190422330"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422330" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422330">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, so we have about 5 minutes left.</p>



<a name="190422334"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422334" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422334">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>ranother related thing might be</p>



<a name="190422349"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422349" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422349">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>collecting examples of summary comments to study :)</p>



<a name="190422418"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422418" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422418">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I might actually do <em>that</em> to start)</p>



<a name="190422441"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422441" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422441">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can work on it, though it would be late next week, though maybe that would be sooner than you were thinking <span aria-label="stuck out tongue" class="emoji emoji-1f61d" role="img" title="stuck out tongue">:stuck_out_tongue:</span></p>



<a name="190422471"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422471" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422471">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I mean it's all good, I don't think we have to move at a frenetic pace</p>



<a name="190422513"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422513" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422513">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anything else to discuss this meeting?</p>



<a name="190422546"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422546" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422546">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>Nope, and I have a hard stop in 5 min</p>



<a name="190422568"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422568" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422568">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>Just what topic for the next meeting.</p>



<a name="190422733"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422733" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422733">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I nominate domain WG changes or the pre-RFC process RFC if it's ready in time.</p>



<a name="190422751"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422751" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422751">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I second those nominations</p>



<a name="190422838"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422838" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422838">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>Third.</p>



<a name="190422863"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422863" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422863">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>w00t!</p>



<a name="190422874"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422874" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422874">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>Re: domain WG, we should start an async thread, I'll do that and seed a bit perhaps</p>



<a name="190422883"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422883" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422883">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can write these up in a blog post</p>



<a name="190422948"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422948" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422948">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sounds good, thanks everyone! <span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span></p>



<a name="190422953"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422953" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422953">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we're ready to close the meeting, then</p>



<a name="190422957"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190422957" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190422957">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Thank you all!</p>



<a name="190423106"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190423106" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190423106">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Thanks <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="225192">@Nell Shamrell-Harrington</span> <span aria-label="sparkling heart" class="emoji emoji-1f496" role="img" title="sparkling heart">:sparkling_heart:</span></p>



<a name="190423119"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190423119" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190423119">(Mar 12 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>yw!</p>



<a name="190438431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190438431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190438431">(Mar 12 2020 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> as a bit of follow-up -- the primary reason I have not worked on a bot is that I did not have a concrete spec :)</p>



<a name="190438457"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190438457" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190438457">(Mar 12 2020 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>but if someone writes up how they expect it to work then implementing that is something that we could get in a week or so I would expect</p>



<a name="190540849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190540849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190540849">(Mar 13 2020 at 18:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>Regarding the process for starting a project group, I think it's important that before the group is actually started (e.g. creating Zulip streams, GH repos, etc.), the liason should bring the idea to the language team and not get a "no". This lets the team as a whole push back against proposals for which there is no consensus and to limit the amount of work done concurrently. Otherwise, I fear this will make the language team "more productive" (i.e. produce more designs, and not just being effective with our time in general) overall, which I think would be at odds with "sustainability" (in the 2019 roadmap sense).</p>



<a name="190544414"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190544414" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190544414">(Mar 13 2020 at 19:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Interesting thought. Even a "let's wait a year and reconsider" would be preferable to opening a project that languishes indefinitely.</p>



<a name="190795553"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190795553" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190795553">(Mar 17 2020 at 00:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Just submitted a PR with the minutes for the meeting <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/pull/45" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/pull/45">https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/pull/45</a></p>



<a name="190886149"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/190886149" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#190886149">(Mar 17 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Blog post has also been submitted</p>



<a name="191098547"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/191098547" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#191098547">(Mar 19 2020 at 11:12)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="225192">@Nell Shamrell-Harrington</span> I saw that you dealt already with the minutes and blog post for the meeting I miss, thanks Nell!</p>



<a name="191916032"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting%202020-03-12/near/191916032" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/meeting.202020-03-12.html#191916032">(Mar 26 2020 at 16:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>oops, deleted</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
</html>